Otherwheres, otherwhens

[kengr]

Okay, I have an idea for a story where somebody (overly stubborn) gets it into his head that it'd be a good idea to drive a tunnel thru the basalt ridge (actually a tall basaltic dike) that divides his land into two chunks.

I've seen such driving on one of the two lane highways out to the coast. Hundred or more feet tall, good chunk of a mile long, and not all that thick.

It's a semi-logical idea. It'd save him a mile or more driving to get a huindred yards or so horizontally.

Except, of course, basalt is tough stuff. Even if he has relevant experience, it's gonna be a bitch driving the tunnel

Anyway, much to his surprise when he (eventually) breaks thru, he'll find that he's not where he expects. The land is pretty much tyhe same. But there are a lot more trees, no roads, and his house/outbuildings aren't there.

I'm looking for something that'll give a definite "we aren't in Kansas anymore" message to him.

Where he is (though it'll take time to work it out is the exact same place he expects. But in a different timeline.One where either Europeans never got to the Americas, or maybe where humans never did.

I'm leaning towards the former, because having local humans to encounter and deal with has its points.

Anyway, any suggestions as to what the big shocker might be? If it was the latter idea, it could be a sabertooth. But for the former one, all I can think of is encountering locals. And I'd rather not have that happen so soon.


Secondary question for the geekier sorts. The "poprtal" to the other timeline is an area uinside the rock formation. Not actually associated with it, it's just there.

I'm trying to come up with ideas about what shape it might be and why. I'm leaning towards a "flat" plane, but it's gotta have edges and a shape. A circle is the most obvious, but I'm wondering if anybody can think of plausible reasons for some other shape.

Shape is important when he tries to enlarge the tunnel.

ETA: location is more or less NW Oregon. West of the Portland Metro Area, and at a guess, halfway between there and the coast. If I can pin down *where* I saw the spectacular formations I'm thinking of, that'll be the location (since I don't have a car, and I'm not positive which highway we were on, going out looking for them isn't an option)


Anyway, feel free to throw out ideas.

Comments

[robby.livejournal.com]

How about a monumental flock of passenger pigeons?

[seawasp]

Would anyone except a bird fanatic be able to tell what a Passenger Pigeon LOOKED like? I certainly wouldn't. "It's a lotta birds. Wow. Big big flock. Hope they won't eat my crops." is the most likely reaction, not "OMG I'm in a different UNIVERSE!!!", which is what Kengr's asking for.

[robby.livejournal.com]

The flocks were MILLIONS of birds that would darken the sky. You could have googled "passenger pigeons" in the time it took you to reply to me.

[seawasp]

Dude, *I* know *what* passenger pigeons were, though I wouldn't be able to IDENTIFY them.

The fact that a huge flock of birds went overhead wouldn't make me immediately think "Passenger pigeon, I'm not in my own time or place". It'd make me think "holy CRAP that's a lot of birds."

Monumental

[robby.livejournal.com]

Some flocks were billions, and darkened the sky for 3 days as they passed. The weight of them, when they landed would break the limbs off trees. It's said that there were more of them, than all the world's other birds combined.

Re: Monumental

[seawasp]

I'm quite aware of that. It still wouldn't trip the "other world" button until and unless I realized WHAT the birds were. I'd be looking for all sorts of other explanations, and mostly just looking up (probably with an umbrella!) wondering where all of 'em came from.

Now, a flock of PTERANODONS, THAT would give me the Other World reaction. Or a Terror Bird or three. (that would also give me the Holy CRAP reaction)

Re: Monumental

[robby.livejournal.com]

Cletus emerged from the tunnel, still carrying his umbrella.
"Shazam! There sure is a lot of god-damned birds over here.
They must have et all my outbuildings. No dinosaurs, though..... Well, it's almost lunchtime, and time to get back. I've suddenly got a powerful hankering for some Chicken McNuggets."

[kengr]

Sorry, They didn't exist west of the Rocky Mountains. And I'm setting this in NW Oregon

[seawasp]

For the Not In Kansas, architecture that is simply Not Anything Like ours, if you assume that the native population eventually developed a civilization which builds permanent dwellings (depends on which Native American tribe is/was dominant there, some built a lot of stuff, like the Iroquois, or were very mobile and had few if any permanent structures, like many of the Great Plains tribes). Plus, he obviously KNOWS what his neighborhood looks like -- he's been living there quite a while -- so the simple fact that what he sees has obviously completely CHANGED since last Tuesday will be a shock.

Also, if you assume a world so different that Europeans never arrived AT ALL, you could have different surviving flora and fauna; that would imply that EUROPE isn't as technologically advanced as it was in our timeline, since the current evidence is that the Europeans "discovered" this continent SEVERAL times in a thousand years or so, and it pretty much surpasses belief that they wouldn't have gotten here by, at latest, the 1800s, unless something seriously different happened in Europe.

Essentially all natural fields are spherical in shape unless they're produced by an intersection of other fields or distorted by the presence of something that affects them. So part of the answer depends on other characteristics of your portal -- what's generating it, etc. If it's a natural phenomenon it would almost HAVE to be circular.

[stickmaker.livejournal.com]

A small herd of mammoths? Without human pressures - and diseases - they might have survived to modern times, the last known being around 4500 years ago.

Call the transition point a discontinuity (a term often used in geology). I could look like a heat shimmer, if you need a visual cue. (Just throwing out ideas; call it whatever you want, of course. It's your story.)

Are you familiar with _Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen_ by H. Beam Piper? Same basic premise (guy from our world winds up in a different history) though a very different mechanism (he gets caught in the wake of an interdimensional explorer's craft). IIRC, in that story people from the Russian region colonized North America centuries or millennia back. (I need to re-read that.)

With the same original colonization as our world but no Columbus, extrapolation as to cultural development is difficult but fun. Many civilizations in NA were strongly impacted by climate change before Columbus, though that was more for the central and southwestern regions. The early settlers in Jamestown had to deal with a centralized society. (I've been reading the fascinating book _1493_ which traces the consequences of Columbus' voyages.) Later, of course, European diseases and pigs (and even earthworms) caused huge disruptions of native cultures.

The basic premise is well used, but I don't recall anyone using your mechanism. Go for it! :-)

[kengr]

Quite familiar with Lord Kalvan. I have a first edition. :-)

I'm figuring that with "native american" presence, without the "great explorers", the fauna will be much like it was when whites started exploring the place. So no mammoths, etc. Pity, that *would* have made for fun. Though I suppose a pack of decent sized wolves lunching on a large deer might raise a few flags.

Yeah, the basic premise is moderately well used. Main difference from most is a two way connection that is "stable" and the finder has no control over.

One thing I figure he'll do (I know *I* would) is dig thru the "local" record for gold mining claims way back when. Especially since I seem to recall a *monster* nugget being found somewhere that isn't too far to go looking for.

[seawasp]

Lord Kalvan and Hobbes?

[kengr]

I think MJ is looking for you....

[seawasp]

Michael Jackson?

Mary Jane Watson?

[kengr]

The person you referred to Duquesne getting a message from in Chapter 2...

[seawasp]

Wouldn't that be M*S*, not MJ?

[kengr]

That's what *I* thought. But check what you wrote.

[seawasp]

I don't see anywhere I said "MJ". I did see MUIRECAN saying "MJ" in the comments on Chapter 2.

[kengr]

Ok, *somebody* said it...

[kengr]

Well, for a number of reasons, I don't want "his" land on the Other Side to have anybody occupying it. You avoid all kinds of problems that way. :-)

as for the lack of "European" contact, I'm just sort of winging that. I figure it has to be something fairly major, but it's not like *He* is ever going to find out.

Plagues, wars, cultural weirdness. Who knows.

The Vikings might have tried and failed with Vinland. And those fishermen might still be fishing at the Grand Banks.

But no Columbus, Cabot, etc.

I sort of figured it'd have to be spherical, but I threw it out on the off chance somebody could come up with a justification for something else.

I'll go with circular, simply because that's "close to right" and a lot easier to deal with.

[seawasp]

If they went through the Enlightenment and reached the Age of Steam it surpasses any belief that they'd have passed the 1900s without reaching the New World -- and then conquering and pillaging and colonizing the hell out of it.

If you killed 'em all off, or for some reason they never advanced past a certain point, then it makes sense, but it's a question I'd ask, that's for sure.

If there's normally ANYTHING in sight on the other side of his ridge -- a small town, his neighbor's house, etc. -- you'd know something was fishy as soon as you popped out the other side, looked around, and realized there were no buildings to be seen anywhere. No roads. Trees where there used to be clearings (if his land was cleared, for instance, it ain't clear now!)

His IMMEDIATE land-equivalent on the other side might not be inhabited, but if you're postulating Native Americans ARE present, they won't be very far away.

Not to mention that Sasquatch might be there!

Another indicator for him might be noticeable, violent volcanic activity when there's none on his side. That's the Cascade range not far away -- Mt.St Helens on the Washington side, Mount Hood on his side, and to the south is Mount Mazama. And in an alternate version there might be a volcano much closer.

[kengr]

Given that I live (and have lived since the mid 70s) less than 50 miles from the spot I'm thinking of, I'm quite familiar with the volcanoes. I remember when St. Helen and point.

I don't see much reason for the geology to be that different.

But it *does* occur to me that with a pre-industrial (or worse) Europe, the climate is apt to be cooler (assuming global warming here).

So maybe the big difference is several inches of snow in October or something.

[seawasp]

Well, volcanic eruptions are basically random from our point of view -- concentrated of course in certain areas, but exactly when one happens, that's pretty much random. In a universe where the probabilities have affected human history like that, there's no reason a volcano couldn't erupt at a different time or place. As long as it's a place a volcano COULD be, reasonably.

[kengr]

Still, it's "simpler" to keep geological events similar.

Besides, if Rainier goes, it won't affect the area. Hell, even if *Hood* goes, it won't affect the area (Hood is a good ways *downwind* in any but rare wind conditions).

Oh yeah, we're about due for a major subduction zone quake off the coast, with resultant tsunami. *That* could get interesting.

[seawasp]

No lahar danger from Hood? I know that's one of the main worries from Ranier.

[kengr]

Be a bit difficult getting past the Sandy river. Getting back up out of that valley requires climbing about 100 feet. And for a location past downtown Portland, forget it. Until you get *way* south, you've got the West Hills in the way. 500-1500 foot near cliffs.

Mostly, stuff from Hood would go thru fairly rural stuff and flow down the existing drainages into the Columbia.

It *would* mess up Portland's primary water supply. But the secondary supply would be safe.

[kengr]

Did a bit more looking. We might have some trouble from flows going down the Clackamas River into the Willamette, but that comes out mostly south of Portland.

Fortunately, there aren't a lot of even small towns on the slopes of Hood or the "watershed" streams. The Columbia and Willamette did us a big favor that way. Most of the settlement went along lines that keep Hood from being a big danger. It'll suck for the folks in those small towns, but..

Urban sprawl has gone some ways towards Hood, but petered out about the point you'd be crossing over to the watershed for the Sandy. And farther south there wasn't a lot of reason to go up the Clackamas so that's another "boundary" area.

Quakes area whole different matter.

[kengr]

Oh yeah, since the guy *isn't* dumb, I figure he's going to "borrow" some geophones and the like and fire off a few charges on both sides.

The resulting patterns should map the anomaly fairly well. Though it may take some modifications of the signal processing software to get the data interpreted properly.

[scott-sanford.livejournal.com]

Essentially all natural fields are spherical in shape unless they're produced by an intersection of other fields or distorted by the presence of something that affects them.

I'll point out that a toroidal anomaly would be useful here. The hole in the middle is self-evident, and the body of the anomaly would plausibly be something the protagonist isn't going to want to stick his body parts into. Of course, from a distance it looks circular but you can't have everything.

[kengr]

Well, it's inside a big, tough hunk of rock. And is arguably "natural". Or at least that's the way Occam's Razor says to go.

Don't want gravitational anomalies. Might have some magnetic component. That could help explain the alignment of the portal.