39 years...

[kengr]

Thirty-nine years ago I rode over to a friends house on my bike and we watched Neil Armstrong step out onto the moon.

In 1974, I and a different friend agreed to meet in 2001 in Luna Citry. And we fully expected that the only problem would be affording it.

Now?

We are maybe equalling the *first* space station we had (Skylab). And we let that crash in 1979 because NASA had put all our eggs in one basket by making deals that killed all other manned and heavy lift missions for the Space Shuttle. So when it wasn't ready to fly in 1979, and Congress couldn't be bothered to fund a mission for boost it into a higher orbit, we took a giant step backwards.

Now? I don't really expect to see manned missions beyond orbits the Shuttle can reach in my lifetime. And if they do happen, I bet they won't be American. Likely Chinese, maybe Japanese.

Looking back on Apollo 11, I'm finding that my mind want to call up the last scene in Planet of the Apes. We didn't blow it up, but we've certainly thrown it away.

And if we aren't careful, we may screw things up badly enough that we never get back out there (if anything happened that kicked us back to WWII level tech or lower, we'd have a hard time building back up because we've used up all the easy to get at metal ores and fossil fuels (except coal).

And the stupidest thing of all is that if we'd gone on and built a moonbase and a decent space station, we'd have learned stuff from their life support systems that'd help with environmental problems on earth.

Comments

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[fayanora.livejournal.com]

I think private companies will end up driving the space race in the future. There are a lot of raw materials out there waiting to be mined, in asteroids and Mars and so on... makes it potentially very profitable for private corporations.

[kengr]

There are a lot of raw materials out there waiting to be mined, in asteroids and Mars and so on... makes it potentially very profitable for private corporations.

They used to say the same thing about the deep seabed. They don't anymore.

You see, private companies won't go after resources and exploit them unless they are allowed to *own* the areas they are working on.

A UN treaty we signed back in the 60s made the ocean beds out past a country's territorial limits the common property of mankind or some suuch phrase.

In essence if you developed a mine on the seabed out there, the UN would get to take it away and given the stuff you mined to any country that wanted it.

We almost got talked into signing the similar treaty about outer space.

Alas, we *did* get talked into one that makes (for example) the US government *totally* responsible for the actions of even privately owned spacecraft and their operators both if tyhey are "based" in the US or if the people on them are US citizens.

Compare that with the way the law works on aircraft, were the owner and pilots are the ones liable if anything goes wrong.

I used the US as an example up there. The same applies to all countries. The governments are the responsible parties, not the folks operating things.

So the laws that sprang up were pretty ugly. We could have had stuff like Rutan's space craft and cheap private launch vehicles 20 years ago. Except the folks that tried in the US couldn't get permits from the Commerce dept (that's who was in charge) and the ones who tried outside the US got told to quit or they'd have a choice between giving up their citizenship or being arrested the next time they set foot in the US.

In essence even though the bureaucrats have eased up some, it's *still* really doubtful that a company could actually lay claim to any resources out in space. And thus, they couldn't profit from them (you not only can't sell something you can't show legal title to, but you aren't going to get investors when they find out you can't claim things)

[fayanora.livejournal.com]

They used to say the same thing about the deep seabed. They don't anymore.

It's easier to go into space than to the deep seabed, because of the intense pressures down there.

You see, private companies won't go after resources and exploit them unless they are allowed to *own* the areas they are working on.

I see no reason companies couldn't own asteroids, or land on Mars.

The governments are the responsible parties, not the folks operating things.

Which have been, so far, one and the same. No one *but* governments has actually gone into space yet.

So the laws that sprang up were pretty ugly. We could have had stuff like Rutan's space craft and cheap private launch vehicles 20 years ago. Except the folks that tried in the US couldn't get permits from the Commerce dept (that's who was in charge) and the ones who tried outside the US got told to quit or they'd have a choice between giving up their citizenship or being arrested the next time they set foot in the US.

Huh? I don't understand.

[kengr]

It's easier to go into space than to the deep seabed, because of the intense pressures down there.

A couple thousand feet down (the depth of the "abyssal plains" that make up most of the ocean floor) isn't all that hard with modern gear.

It's a *lot* less expensive than an orbital launch, much less a mission going beyond earth orbit.

I see no reason companies couldn't own asteroids, or land on Mars.

Because no one is allowed to claim extraterretrial bodies or portions thereof. It's international law. Even if the US isn't 100% behind parts of it, the rest of the world is and if anything valuable was found they'd jump at having a "legal" excuse fotr confiscating ot hijacking it.

Huh? I don't understand.

Under the laws as they stood then (and mostly stand now) doing anything in space without your government's permission is very much illegal.

So folks who tried were given a choice of "renounce your citizenship or get arrested for doing things that you don't have permission for when you return to the US"

[fayanora.livejournal.com]

Because no one is allowed to claim extraterretrial bodies or portions thereof. It's international law.

The. HELL?

Dammit! And here I was saving up for a cozy little asteroid house with a great summer view of Mars.

Under the laws as they stood then (and mostly stand now) doing anything in space without your government's permission is very much illegal.

OH NO! How will I get back to the mothership now?

Seriously, what the fuck? What gives them the right to tell me I can't go to outer space without asking permission first?

[kengr]

Seriously, what the fuck? What gives them the right to tell me I can't go to outer space without asking permission first?

Same thing that lets them tell you you can't drive over the speed limit. Or build in the wrong place or the wrong way.

These inconvenient things called "laws".

Check your copy of the Constitution. ou'll discover that it states that treaties entered into by the US have the same standing as the Constitution as far as being "supreme law of the land".

[fayanora.livejournal.com]

ANARCHY!

[kengr]

Go read Larry Niven's short story "Cloak of Anarchy".

Anarchy isn't stable. :-(