No, it doesn't violate the First Amendement

Ok, the owners of that former bakery in Gresham OR got the final judgement for their refusal to serve a lesbian couple.

It's $130,000 or so.

A lot of folks including one annoying local radio/TV commentator keep making noises about how out of line this is compared with things like speeding tickets.

They miss the fact that it's not that the couple didn't get their wedding cake. It's that they didn't get it BECAUSE THEY WERE GAY.

The owners are vowing to appeal, and making comments about how it's a violation of their first amendment rights.

Sorry, this is another thing much like the civil disobedience bit I went into yesterday.

The first amendment says you have freedom of speech. It does *not* say that you can't get into trouble for what you say or do.

They are perfectly free to make comments about how they disapprove of "gay marriage". and they are free to claim it's part of their religion.

What they are *not* free to do is run a business and then discriminate against people for being gay.

Don't think that's right? What would you say if they'd refused to make a cake for an inter-racial couple. Or a black couple?

It's the *exact same thing*.

Also, they *could* have stayed in business and simply quit making wedding cakes for *anybody*.

As a person providing a service to the public, you are *not* allowed to refuse service because someone belongs to a group covered by anti-discrimination laws. Period.

Note: that doesn't mean you can't refuse service to a member of one of those groups. You just can do it *because* they belong to the group.

Refuse someone for being a woman, no. Refuse her because she's an arrogant pain-in-the-ass, no problem.

Also, just consider where allowing people to refuse service based on their religious beliefs goes. Christian Scientists (and members of some other churches, including one notorious local one) could refuse to sell medicine or to provide medical services.

Oh wait, some "Christians" do that already with regards to birth control, the morning after pill and other things. :-(

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Otherwise the libel & slander laws wouldn't exist. Not would "inciting to riot".

Freedom of religion isn't a get out of jail free card either. You are free to live your life according to your beliefs. You are *not* free to try to force others to conform to your beliefs. Which is what those business owners are doing.

If your beliefs preclude "assisting" with some things, then you'd best not have a job where that could come up.

ps. The owners closed the bakery a couple years ago but are apparently still selling stuff from their house. That's skirting things, but as long as they do it in a way that they aren't serving "the public" but can claim it's "friends" they should be ok.

Religious Belief and Civic Duty

e_moon60 says it better than I can
Religious Belief and Civic Duty

Them that has, gets.

the fact that donald trump can make a lot of money inspires me - if he can do it, how hard could it be

An important but oft overlooked point regarding all these rich people.

How much money did they *start* with? Often their money (or their family's money) was far higher than a "normal" person would have. That's not "merely" a "step up" it's a *huge* advantage.

The resources you have to start with influences the results in a *very* non-linear manner. 10 times the starting resources doesn't give you 10 times the results. More like 100 times.

Another important point is "who did they know?" What sort of contacts did they have from family, friends, school, etc. This is another force multiplier.

If you "know somebody" you aren't just more likely to get a job. You are more likely to get a *good* job (as opposed to an "entry level" job that's essentially dead end.

And this, btw, is why upper middle class types think "get a job" is a reasonable thing to tell somebody. Because they *do* have starting resources and contacts (or did when *they* were entering the work force).

"middle" midle class folks think this too. Many of them have gotten a rude shock when they got dumped back into the job market and found out that they no longer have the contacts that got them a good job when they were young.