Effort vs results

[kengr]

"You're not trying!"

Thus runs the familiar cry. Be it from a PE coach, a teacher of some more academic subject, or a parent.

Right or wrong, what they *actually* mean, even if they don't realize it themselves is "You aren't achieving the results I expect you to."

Note the rather significant difference between those two statements. The former is an *assumption* based on their observations of your results and what they think is your attitude. It's also an attempt to make the lack of desired results your fault.

The latter is a statement of fact. Worse, it highlights the fact that their *expectations* are a critical component of the situation.

Consider. The kid isn't doing well and perhaps looks sullen and resentful. Or maybe listless.

"Obviously" they aren't trying. Right?

Maybe.

Or maybe they've been giving it their best shot and failing because they lack the ability or because your expectations are too high. And continued failure *combined with accusations that they aren't trying* is why they are acting the way they are.

And the failure in spite of actual (and unrecognized/ignored) effort may be because the adult has *assumed* things. Like assuming a kid knows things the adult does. And without those minor but *crucial* bits of info (or technique) the task isn't *possible* to complete satisfactorily.

This is a somewhat specific case of a far more general problem.

People confuse effort and results. They assume that sufficient effort *will* produce results. And they also assume that lack of results means lack of effort.

This affects *everything*. It's part of why the jobless are assumed to be at fault. Likewise for welfare.

It's also why so many programs that are producing no results or are actually counterproductive survive. They are "major efforts". Just look at all the money/manpower being thrown at the problem.

As an overly simple example, a group of people can push on a log all they want and it won't move if the middle is up against a big rock. Push *sideways* and once it's past the rock *then* it can easily be rolled to where you wanted it.

But as long as that rock is there, adding more manpower won't help.

Now consider where the problem is less obvious. Say long branch stub that got buried in the ground when the ground was a sea of mud.

The log still won't roll. But there's not an obvious reason. And to an uncritical, uncaring or just plain stupid boss, the reason it won't move *must* be that the worker or work crew isn't trying. It *can't* be that there's a *hidden* problem making the situation different from other, outwardly similar ones.

Nope.

I'm sure the parallels with various policies, government programs and various common memes are now obvious.

But that's not going to help with getting folks to quit confusing effort and results. Not any more than they are going to quit believing that good intentions *can't* have bad results unless someone did something out of malice to cause them. (Another rant for another day).

Comments

[brockulfsen.livejournal.com]

I think the perfect example of the disconnect between effort and results is representative democracy, especially the peculiar form currently in theoretical use in the US.

[xander-opal.livejournal.com]

Also known as why I am elated when someone makes an appointment for tutoring, and disappointed when someone is doing poorly and does not request help.
The goal is non-movable: learn these things and demonstrate that knowledge.
The process of achieving the goal is moveable; what is impossible to do alone without training can be done with the help of someone to train a person.
The question asked should not be, 'Why aren't they trying hard enough?'
The question asked should be, 'Why aren't they able to reach the goal?'

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

Do they even know what the goal is, or that they haven't reached it yet?

[xander-opal.livejournal.com]

In this case, yes. College class, with a defined degree, and a clearly written syllabus given at the first day of class. Said syllabus has the required knowledge to pass the class described, as well as intermediate goals.

[seawasp]

Speaking as a parent, there are times that you know the child is, in fact, quite capable of the task, and they are not, in fact, trying.

Anyone other than a parent or person similarly close and long-term involved in the person's life, however, has no chance to make the evaluation (and I certainly wouldn't dispute that parents can also blind themselves to certain things based on expectations). Government, etc., programs are NOT in that position and cannot run on the "you're not trying" assumption unless they've got a magical "effort detection device".

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

As long as you're certain that the child is quite capable, that's fine.

When I was in school, my mother assumed that I wasn't trying to write a paper. Actually, I was trying; I just didn't know how to do it, and I didn't have any ideas that went anywhere.

[kengr]

Alas, even parents can get it wrong. Worse is when (as my mother did) they get it wrong *consistently*.

After enough cases of "you can do better" for when you did get results, and "you aren't trying" for when you didn't (note that I don't mention any "you did great"s in there) and effort will get reduced to that which will balance the grief you are going to get anyway against the effort you are willing to exert on a lost cause.

One of the problems was that too often the lack of results was a matter of lack of understanding of what was to be done or how to do it.

After I didn't perform to expectations in first grade, mom (a former schoolteacher) started having my spend the summers doing workbooks for the next grade's math (and possibly other subjects, but math is the one I remember).

Thing is, she didn't get the textbooks. So there were times when her explanations of the concepts were lacking. But it was my lack of effort when I didn't get the problems done.

The worst case was they had those problems where digits are replaced with letters and you have to work out the answer:

SUMMER
-WINTER
-------

(not the exact problem but similar). When I expressed bafflement, mom "explained" that you replaced the letters with numbers. Period.

She *assumed* that I understood that you replaced a given letter with the *same* digit throughout the problem, but in different problems the mapping of digit to letter was different.

Without that crucial bit of "obvious" (to *her*) info I sat there staring at the problems because there wasn't any way to solve them (given the rules as I understood them). And since the "explanation" had been given with a *clear* "that's all the info you need, bother me again and you are in trouble" I was in a lose-lose situation.

So, I got in trouble for not doing the problems even though I tried to explain that I couldn't see how to do them. (keep in mind that this had to have been no later than the summer before I started 4th grade as we moved to a different house at the start of that school year).

An extreme example, but I've seen it in other cases with other people. "Obvious" *critical* info not known and folks getting in trouble because they must have been playing dumb or not trying or whatever.

Yes, in many, maybe even most cases a parent may be right in diagnosing lack of effort. But when they aren't...

[griffen.livejournal.com]

The problem is - and I say this as an educator - that often times, results are positively correlated with effort. The issue for me is when a student has no results or poor results but claims significant effort. We don't grade effort. We grade results. I can only grade what I see in front of me - the exam, the paper, or the presentation - not the twelve or sixteen hours of effort someone claims to have put in (and frankly, I usually don't believe they've put in that much effort when their paper is a D paper or they fail the exam).

The standard cubicle-farm workplace has a similar confusion with effort and results, in that it feels that if you are not constantly demonstrating effort, you cannot be getting results - and if you ARE getting results without visible effort, then you aren't being assigned enough work to keep you "busy" for the full shift, so they load it on because they want to make maximum use of the time they're paying you to put in and get MORE results.

It's a mess, I'll agree there - but what frosts me is when I get the whine "But I TRIED!" as if that should be enough to get the B (or the A) instead of the C for the results. If you're putting in that much effort and your results are mediocre, it's time to get assistance and/or rethink what you're doing. Effort is, quite simply, not enough - and if your work is mediocre, I have to assume you are not putting in the effort or that something (a learning disability, perhaps) is preventing you from achieving success with the effort you're applying.

[kengr]

True. Often they are correlated. But correlation≠causation.

I do agree about "but I tried" not being enough to get the grade. Alas, *that* is a direct consequence of the flip side which I mentioned. The idea that effort *must* produce results.

Both "lack of results *must* equal lack of effort" and "adequate effort *must* produce adequate results" (and "more effort must produce more results") significantly distort perceptions of society as well as individuals.

There could be a paper in there for some sociologist (not you, I know it's outside your "field" :-)

[brockulfsen.livejournal.com]

And here we see the splinter in the educator's eye.
"I have to assume you are not putting in the effort or that something (a learning disability, perhaps) is preventing you from achieving success with the effort you're applying."

It never enters your head that the failure may be on your side of the desk.

My Daughter is graded on Effort, which is effectively bonus marks for results, or occasionally encouragement, because effort is not obvious in a classroom of 30 kids for 40 minutes a day. This causes her endless frustration because no matter how much effort she puts in, unless her results are high, or improving, she gets marked down for effort. In maths, it is because the teacher is a hopeless communicator. He has repeatedly marked her wrong for doing exactly as he demonstrated on the board. Result correct, working skipped a step or two, as did his worked example.

[griffen.livejournal.com]

I don't doubt that her math teacher is not doing his job. However, I doubt anyone gets graded on Effort (marked down for effort? I don't see how that's possible) nor should they. The grade MUST be based on the RESULTS.

Someone who talks a good line in class but consistently fails exams should not get extra points just because they talk a good line in class - unless that's part of the participation score, in which case it's still results, not effort.

Bottom line: Absent evidence of effort in the results provided to me in exams, papers, and presentations, I have to assume no effort is being made.

[brockulfsen.livejournal.com]

Effort is one of the items for each subject on the report cards.

So yes, they do get marked on effort.

Again you assume that your experience is definitive and instead of wondering why something is not as you expect you blame it on my ignorance of the subject.

[xander-opal.livejournal.com]

General further response:
In education, at times a teacher is required to use a badly designed curriculum or text. In that case, there is only so much a teacher can do: Their boss, and their budget, mandates what is to be used, and what can be done to upgrade/replace that which might not be working.

This is right up there with jumping around in a textbook: it is best done only carefully, and after ensuring the student has the required information background.
I've done it twice now where that wasn't the case. Both times, I succeeded in spite of the problems made, through massive extra effort.
In one case where (if we were actually using a text) we would have jumped around some, the instructor presented his material in such a way as to be coherent and cohesive in the order of presentation. In that case, though, the instructor has effectively written his own textbook.

Just some thoughts that were inspired by some of the comments.

[brockulfsen.livejournal.com]

In Australia it is rare to travel through a text book in a linear way, at high school or university. We are largely forced to live on the leavings of the US market, and thus have to do our best with what is at hand.