Apt quote

[kengr]

From one of fayanora's tweets:

I think part of the reason we have trouble drawing the line “it’s not okay to force someone into sexual activity” is that in many ways, forcing people to do things is part of our culture in general. Cut that shit out of your life. If someone doesn’t want to go to a party, try a new food, get up and dance, make small talk at the lunchtable—that’s their right. Stop the “aww c’mon” and “just this once” and the games where you playfully force someone to play along. Accept that no means no—all the time.

Comments

[seawasp]

The problem with that is that many people need serious encouragement to go places and do things. They'll say "no" for many reasons that don't have much to do with whether they will enjoy themselves, or even whether it would be a desperately good thing for them to do. This is very much true of me, and it took many years for me to learn to say "yes" when my immediate reaction was "no" -- even when the "no" was a stupid reaction.

[kengr]

Yeah, but is it actually "needing encouragement"? Or "forcing conformity"?

There's also an assumption in what you say that people *must* be enjoying themselves or "happy".

Yeah being miserable/depressed is usually no fun. But there's a lot of territory between that and "happy".

"It's for their own good" is a pernicious doctrine. And should be used *very* sparingly. Because if you don't, you are saying that *your* impressions and judgements trump those of the other person. That way lies a lot of the evil in the world.

Yes, there's some good there too. But it requires *serious* reflection and consideration before infringing on someone else's autonomy that way.

Classic example without quite that degree of "severity" are all the extroverts who keep dragging introverts into things.

The introverts are not only happy reading or sitting and thinking by themselves, but it's an actual *strain* putting up with all those "fun" activities that the extroverts are dragging them into. Rather than being invigorated, they'll be worn out and need some private time to recharge (whereas the group stuff seems to be how the extroverts recharge)

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

I think there's a happy medium somewhere between inviting, encouraging, and pressuring.

[seawasp]

Yes. And sometimes it involves figuring out how to change No, No, No to yes.

As a parent, I have to do this a LOT. I also have to tell my wife when to accept "no" even when she wishes it was "yes" because I'm an introvert and so are some of my kids.

[xander-opal.livejournal.com]

For me, no means no-- even when 'no means yes.' The consequences of caution are missing out on fun; the consequences of miscommunication are disaster.

I've also had people try to drag me somewhere, either to some kind of event or to a philosophical point. The more pressure brought to bear, the more I resist. I do not appreciate being pressured into something.

I definitely fall under the introvert end of the spectrum, and social things are pure hassle for me. Add in that my work schedule and requirements, for my entire life, has left me with very little free time--I spend that little bit of time doing things I know I will enjoy. I might try something new, every once in a great while--but that is like trying a new dish at a restaurant where the meals are upwards of $50 a person. Some of us can't afford to chance going wrong.